Discussion

By Doug Bowker on Jul 14, 2009

I certainly agree with the concern and appreciate the PIA's position in making it public. I have always had great respect for HP both in terms of the quality of their print solutions and their respect for their print-industry customer base. However this managed print services announcement cannot be a surprise - they are one of the few major print system providers who had not yet made this move. Xerox has been selling print systems to the print industry for years and then turning around and selling systems directly to the very clients that they used as examples of potential markets to justify hardware sales to their print "partners". If the print industry turns a blind eye to Xerox's longstanding success in playing both sides of the fence, why the fuss about HP?

By Henk Gianotten on Jul 14, 2009

Same story, as always. Don't we learn? HP offers exactly what corporations need. Lower prices, saving on energy, paper and toner/ink. And integrated solutions where workflow and output are tightly linked. We (commercial printers) have to offer corporations exactly the same package in traditional and digital print: Lower prices, predictable quality, lean organization and targeted to the customers needs. And a pay back guarantee if we fail to deliver the quality we promised. Yes, some big printers compete with HP. So what. Look how other media compete with print. That's far more dangerous, I think. HP offers all kinds of web based solutions. We can offer the same services linked to our production systems. Do what HP does. Offer these kind of services and help your customer to save money. Read the white papers of 3M, Viacom and Logica. That's a bunch of solutions offered to the CIO's of this world. That's what they need. In the past PIA and other employer federations had the same emotional problems with quick printers (1965), PostScript/DTP (1985) and Web2Print (2000). The French say L'histoire se repete! Again and again.

By Jim on Jul 14, 2009

HP (as well as Xerox, Vista Print, InnerWorkings and others) is simply addressing a service gap that we as printers have failed to provide effectively. They're not likely to have invested in such a program without robust market research. Too many of us wait for our customers to tell us what they want us to make instead of us providing solutions that address our customer's cost reduction, revenue enhancement or operational efficiency concerns. That said, the delivery model for HP may be substantially more complex than it appears from the outside. By the way HP, thanks for validating an important service model opportunity for those willing to do the work to deliver on the promise.

By Brad Donnell on Jul 14, 2009

When we decided to purchase our HP Indigo press instead of the Xerox IGen one of the deciding factors included the fact that HP was not my competitor and Xerox was. When Xerox offered managed services to my largest client we lost a significant amount of business. I had hoped HP would not follow the Xerox model. I'm sure decisions being made at HP have a lot to do with the current business climate. Everyone's sales are down and so we all look for ways to increase sales. However, I think they are potentially going to lose long term business to increase short term sales.

By Michael J on Jul 14, 2009

Managed Print Services are a growing part of the business. It's been going on for years. From what I read, it seems that this year might be when it goes mainstream. I don't understand why the PIA spends time and money on a train that has already left the station. For the 95% of printers that Printing Office is talking to, this is a non issue. Very few of them have the ability, time or skill set to get into MPS. The players are HP, Ricoh, and Xerox. If printers want to get into this sector, they might want to get in touch with what used to be called "copier" outfits. The buzz there is all about becoming "service providers." In their case it's Managed Print Services, instead of Marketing Service Providers. MPS or MSP it's all about saving time, money and energy. If independent printers got together with independent copier companies, the HP could chase the globals and we could pick up all the local and regional enterprises. The print services that drive this are not mostly purchased commercial print. That's small potatoes compared to the money that is wasted on printing within the enterprise.

By Frank on Jul 15, 2009

Commercial Printers need to wake up!! PIA is correct to challenge this action by HP. Left unchallenged, many more printers will soon be out of business. I would recommend PIA and NAPL launch an industry wide initiative that forces HP,Xerox, Ricoh and Kodak to legally commit to a 10 year non-compete on any purchase or lease documents they ask printers to sign. Otherwise we are all destined to becoming pawns of these companies and regulated to become part of thier users groups rather then standing tall as an independent industry.

By Leo on Jul 15, 2009

It's the way how you look at this, that let's you either see an opportunity or a problem. Managed Print Services make a lot of sense for enterprises. Will this create a problem for commercial printers? I don't think so. What every company does is searching for ways to save money in order to invest into growth. And who drives growth? Marketing and sales. A company that is able to reinvest the money that is saved with Managed Print Services into growth will be more successful than without using this solution. More money to invest means more money for marketing and marketing is what developes the ideas and creates the work for commercial printers. Why do I think the HP approach is different? I think the problem is not the service, the problem is what you do with it. I agree that Xerox (just to name one) for instance, and as mentioned in a recent comment, took business away from its commercial clients. But that did not happen because of Managed Print Services. It happened because there was almost no difference in the output. They simply placed the same system they sold to commercial printers at their enterprise clients. Many other vendors do that too. Commercial printers run DC250s, enterprises too. The Canon 7000, 6000 and C1 have the same print engine with the same output quality just with different speed, and i could go on... They are placed from big commercial printers to SMBs. If you can create the same output quality yourself for less cost - Why not? I worked for one of those vendors and the approach was: Sell the big systems to the big printers and tell the agencies or SMBs that they can save a lot of money by printing stuff in-house with the same quality but much cheaper. Is this likely to happen with HP? I don't know, but most probably not. I do not see a "Mini Indigo for internal use" on the horizon. And this is what I believe makes a big difference. As long as technology like Indigo (the commercial press of HP) will not be matched with small in-house devices, and as far as I know that did not happen yet nor will it happen soon, I see no big problem for commercial printers. Are there or will there be Indigos in enterprise accounts? Yes, because there are also offset systems in enterprise accounts, but I believe that this will rather be the exception than the norm. Will this take away a lot of business from commercial printers? I honestly don't think so. I rather see a lot of benefits for commercial printers with digital capabilities. Managed Print Services, combined with intelligent Web2Print solutions to a commercial printer can be a big benefit for all involved. It's just a matter how to address this. Will it be likely that HP Indigo clients benefit more than other commercial printers with digital equipment? Yes, but if Canon or who ever would do that, they would also prefer their clients.

By Rob Sethre on Jul 15, 2009

The PIA announcement is basically a case of mistaken identity. The key concerns and discussions in the past have involved the HP MarketSplash initiative. As mentioned in some of the other comments, there are also similar concerns about VistaPrint, Innerworkings, etc. This recent HP announcement, however, is associated with their activities in the MFP/printer space, ie, managing decentralized networked office print fleets. While there may be some peripheral overlap, this program hardly touches the commercial print space at all. Obviously the phrase Managed Print Services means different things to different people, but it should be clear that the concerns raised by PIA do not apply to this particular HP program.

By Michael J on Jul 16, 2009

Leo said "I rather see a lot of benefits for commercial printers with digital capabilities. Managed Print Services, combined with intelligent Web2Print solutions to a commercial printer can be a big benefit for all involved. It’s just a matter how to address this." Maybe one useful way to think about the possibilities is through the lens of a "printernet" to compliment the internet. If MPS within the enterprise is connected to networks of PSPs outside the network, the user can get the experience of 1 copy on the desktop, 30 copies at the workgroup MFP (multi function printer) 300 copies at the in house and 3000+ copies at a networked PSP. If large networks of PSPs could work under standardized process and quality standards, such as IPA and GraCol have been working on for years, that would finally enable a real distribute and print functionality. I read recently that infoprint has 50 installations of their continuous form inkjet. HP has a huge installed Indigo base as does Xerox. CGX has PSP's spread all over the globe. AlphaGraphic and the other franchises have a huge reach. If any of them were able to move work into their network it would be possible for a user to deliver and print millions of print pieces in a couple of days with a minimal carbon footprint. I have to believe that the global brands would jump at the chance if it could be offered in one package with single buy point. If information rich QR codes are in the mix, that amount of useful data the global could harvest would rival anything they can get from the web.

By Michael J on Jul 16, 2009

I apologize for 2 in a row, but wanted to add the idea that none of the existing networks has enough scale or speed to be able to get a decent margin. It's only by cooperating on the basis of standards that millions and millions of Print pieces can be delivered merely by using the excess capacity that is out there. 1000 PSPs each producing 10,000 pieces should not be disruptive to any one PSP. Putting it all together gets 10 million pieces delivered in a couple of days.

By Chuck on Jul 17, 2009

Something like 25-30% of all output on workgroup printers is uncollected-- waste that is thrown away. Large companies have a difficult time purchasing, storing and deploying consumables (i.e., toner cartridges), and often either run out during business hours or end up losing track of consumables and then throw them out(to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars) when discover them in a closet after they've expired. Managing print drivers is a big hassle for corporations, too, when they use many different printers. HP wants to help companies streamline business processes around office print, help them save money, and in the process sell a bunch of printers. What's wrong with that? I just don't understand how that has any impact on the PIA at all. In fact a group as large as the PIA, with all its members, should be working very hard to come up with ways to streamline customer business processes in a similar way, instead of whining about what HP is doing.

By Printing in uk on Jul 18, 2009

yes i agree with chuck Large companies have a difficult time purchasing, storing and deploying consumables (i.e., toner cartridges), and often either run out during business hours or end up losing track of consumables and then throw them out(to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars) when discover them in a closet after they’ve expired. Managing print drivers is a big hassle for corporations, too, when they use many different printers

By Clint Bolte on Jul 20, 2009

Michael J and Chuck understand this new market niche that is being pursued by the 16 different digital print engine manufacturers with their array of multi-functional devices (MFDs) or multi-functional printers (MFPs). The market is corporations who buy copier fleets of remotely distributed MFDs for their various plants and campuses throughout the world. Think hundreds of units typically networked in a geographic location. Go to www.managed-print-services.com to learn more about this niche and the new trade association that is being formed to help users, vendors (HW & SW), consultants, and the support media better understand the dynamics. The inaugrial Managed Print Services Conference was held April 26-28, 2009 in San Antonio. Highlights of this gathering with case studies and success principles can be downloaded as a courtesy from my website (www.clintbolte.com) under conference highlight articles. Now for the opportunity that national trade associations could be focusing on... Corporations universally are having a difficult time making the transition from the Purchasing Department's economy of scale copier fleet purchasing (hardware as well as expendables) mind set to that being envisioned as Managed Print Services. There literally is a major corporate cultural shift to getting the entire white collar work force to print "less" off their networked MFDs (while literally giving up their desktop printers, scanners, and fax units-all of which are more expensive!). The print "less" comes from imbedded software that defaults to duplex printing, encourages PDF "printing" and distribution via e-mail. The corporate responsibility for implementing the new MPS concept is gravitating from the Purchasing Department to the IT Department. This is often a mistake as few IT folks are heavy into "interpersonal corporate cultural change." IT is typically into standardization and do-it-my-way. The logical partner for the IT Department to pull this winner off is the in-plant printing operation. The thorough training, hand-holding, and customer service that has become second nature to good in-plants is the missing link that corporations of all size need to make this work. PIA and NAPL both have many in-plants as members and MPS can be a bonanza for these folks. IPMA, ACUP, NGPA, and the other various in-plant associations are no doubt getting up to speed quickly to help their members be prepared. Hopefully the printing industry will learn much more about this new niche arena, Managed Print Services, at Print '09 and possibly at the Executive Outlook Conference held the day before Print '09 starts.