Discussion

By Joe Treacy on Jan 26, 2024

It’s turned into such a coarse 2024, that one would think that a more coarse color would be more appropriate than Peach Fuzz.

Frank, your porcupine color idea surely does reflect the prickly nature of current events.

It’s likely a good idea that Pantone suggests Peach Fuzz as a way to help calm the world. Pantone has probably done the world a great favor in this way.

Color is so powerful. Everything that can help soothe today’s world has got to be a good and welcome idea.

Joe Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces.com

By Joe Treacy on Jan 26, 2024

By the way, Frank, I agree that how the limits of the CMYK gamut and how it seems to force many designers today into spot color library selections such as Pantone, is kind of a mess.

Just last fall 2023, I was involved in consulting on a series of packaging projects recently where the customer was suddenly put through weeks of extra time and expense because the packaging designer abruptly became absolutely convinced that CMYK options just weren’t going to cut it.

As often happens with packaging flavor colors, the perceived CMYK problems had involved oranges and greens not being vibrant enough.

Of course, hexachrome and CMYK extended gamut were created decades ago to help immediately solve these kinds of problems.

But since the client’s packaging approval process had already seriously run out the clock, extended gamut testing of CMYK plus green, orange and violet wasn’t even given serious consideration in solving the color matching problem.

The entire project had to unnecessarily move from digital to flexo. The flexo printer ultimately did a very impressive job, but I still believe the entire move from digital CMYK OGV was unnecessary.

Simply taking the time to test CMYK OGV options would’ve saved literally weeks of time, and the extra expense of having to wait through various flexo proofing problems (the kinds of things that just sometimes happen in any proofing on any platform, but more complicated because of the Pantone additions).

Then, something additional that I’ve never seen in 50 years of buying printing happened. Out of 8 Pantone colors added to the CMYK, suddenly half of the Pantone-matched colors weren’t right, either. And the printer’s ink mixers had to guess what was on the client designer’s mind, having to “go slightly lighter” on several of the Pantone colors.

Suddenly it was all in completely uncharted territory, and nothing could be said to help dial back the madness. It all just had to keep playing out, delaying the new product introduction for many weeks.

Having watched and actively participated in the monumentally increasing time spent daily with the competing RGB color gamut and its greater possibilities of vibrant oranges and greens, I see the increasing ongoing confusion and frustration that RGB causes with both clients who fancy themselves as designers, and with trained designers themselves.

Especially for designers who every day have one foot in the print space and the other in the digital web design space, the disparities between CMYK and RGB can be even more hand-wringing.

If I may suggest it, I think your “problems with CMYK” part of today’s video deserves more discussion on its own for today’s graphic arts practitioners and designers, too.

CMYK OGV needs more publicity.

Joe Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces.com

By Toby Weiss on Jan 26, 2024

Frank, great video. Of course with University of Michigan winning the championship this year my choice has to be Maize (PMS 7406) and Blue (PMS 282). Whatever designers decide though, Fiery Digital Front Ends are here to help them achieve it #shamefulplug:). With all of the recruiting in Columbus, we even need to be prepared for Scarlet and Grey next year :)

_Toby Weiss
CEO, Fiery

By Dov Isaacs on Jan 26, 2024

Frank,

Beyond what you described, the situation is even more complex!

When you specify “CMYK” exactly which CMYK are you talking about? SWOP CMYK? Euroscale CMYK, FOGRA CMYK, Phred's CMYK? Proper color selection and rendition requires some true understanding of Color Management.

This has been a problem for many years but has been exacerbated by Pantone in recent years (beyond Pantone's change in their business model, effectively renting out the Pantone color swatch specifications, i.e., the LaB specifications, for each of their colors).

For further insights into the whole range of problems associated with color definitions, especially “brand colors” you may wish to look at https://www.insights4print.ceo/ website run by Eddy Hagen.

- Dov

PS: Exactly what are the specifications for the colors of my favorite frozen desert flavors – Strawberry Buffalo Chip Swirl and Liver Lime sherbet?

By Alvaro Mantilla on Jan 29, 2024

The possibility to use CMYK + Pantone at the same time in digital printing is available only with the HP Indigo Presses. And not sure if Frank knows, but the special colors for HP Indigo customers in North America are mixed at RIT (Print Applications Lab)
https://www.rit.edu/printapplicationslab

By Raymond Sielski on Jan 29, 2024

History of the Monotype,
Just finished this book, The cover is deceptive. This book is a fun refresher history course in all things, from the ages of design, typesetting, fonts, hot and cold. The key archetypes and more.
I always wanted to know how a matrice was made, punch dies included. I have a family relative that was a career linotype operator in Bufffalo, NY during the 40's, 50's, 60's and early 70's.
1973, a first year print major at RIT my first courses were. Typography with Andrew Lawson, Hot Metal Composing with Emory Schneider and Offset Press, Cliff Fraser.
Now that is a way to start a career!

Raymond Sielski RIT 77.

By Joe Treacy on Jan 31, 2024

To Alvaro Mantilla, about the Pantone mixing for Indigo at RIT:

I’m really excited that RIT stepped up to fill this gap. But most local Indigo shops I use have no awareness of this great service.

I’ve been very interested to know more about how local printers that I use can order small quantities regionally for deadline jobs. Are quantities yet available regionally to be had on quick turnaround?

Thanks very much.

Joe Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces.com

By Joe Treacy on Jan 31, 2024

re Pantone to CMYKOGV:

Open question:

Any idea why Pantone stopped making their (2016) Pantone to CMYKOGV “Plus Series Extended Gamut Costed” swatchbook?

Thanks.

Joe Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces.com

By Alvaro Mantilla on Feb 01, 2024

To Joe Treacy,
Yes inks are available in small quantities, and the turn around time up to 3 business days.

Rgds,

Álvaro Mantilla
Supplies Category Manager
HP Indigo AMS

By Joe Treacy on Feb 01, 2024

Hi, Alvaro. Thanks! That’s amazing progress, and great to know about.

Joe Treacy
President & Director of Typography
Treacyfaces.com