Discussion

By Peter Renton on Mar 17, 2009

Nice roundup Adam. As a Denver resident I am supporting the new venture coming out of the now defunct Rocky Mountain News, but I don't hold out much hope that it will be a viable business.

The newspaper business is obviously broken because this kind of advertising model no longer works. Something needs to be done and soon. The smartest solution I have read is Steve Rubel's blog post from earlier this month:
http://www.micropersuasion.com/2009/03/the-amazon-kindle-will-monetize-media.html

Most of the newspapers of the world have a finite window of opportunity here to remake their business, but how many are willing to take the leap?

Regards, Peter

By Michael J on Mar 17, 2009

What's broken about the advertising model is not the newspapers. It's an ad sales process that is too expensive and too complicated for micro, small and medium business.

Google AdSense created a million new buyers of advertising..bringing new money to the table.

Local newspapers and local media companies will eventually do the same for paper+web+ collateral.
http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2009/03/how-print-publications-can-help-hyper-local-sites072.html

By Andy McCourt on Mar 17, 2009

MJ wrote: "What’s broken about the advertising model is not the newspapers. It’s an ad sales process that is too expensive and too complicated for micro, small and medium business."
Hear,hear Michael. And you could add the guy with the "trusty but rusty" '98 Pontiac wanting to sell it using a colour picture too.
Here in Australia, we have a very strong network of localised free newspapers such as Cumberland Community Newspapers (owned by Mr Murdoch's News Corp) and others: http://www.newsspace.com.au/?groupid=1
These titles look great on SC paper; even LWC - in full colour and guess what...I haven't noticed any decline in advertising (incl. classifieds) during this recession. Why? Because these papers are free, localised and the advertising is targeted to regions and is affordable. One, The Manly Daily (reference to a suburb, not Australian macho-ness!) is reportedly the highest paginated free daily in the world. They reach out to communities of around 30,000 households and don't try to be mass-market 'thunderers.' Take this successful model further with digitally-printed, hyper-localised targeted titles and the advertising cost will be even more affordable, and wil deliver higher returns per-dollar-invested. Having said that, I note Goss is now positioning its presses as able to do job-changes at 3,000 copies. So offset lives in this world too. As for paying for content; I'm a cynic. I don't think people will do this in sufficient numbers for newspapers, on Kindles or on paper. Bring back the advertisers by hyper-localising, and blend DM with NP.

By Andy McCourt on Mar 17, 2009

Link to the Manly Daily by the way: a true success story and no sign at all that it will close and go online!
http://www.newsspace.com.au/manly_daily_

By Michael J on Mar 18, 2009

Andy,
Any thoughts on why the coolest stuff in English is most visible in the UK and the Other former colonies?

I'm not buying that Brits, Canadians and Aussies are smarter than us Yanks, but everytime I see something on the web that is really cool, it's not from here.

My theory is that there is just too much noise in the States for the real signals of innovation to get through. Plus the Aussies are the closest English speakers near Asia. Plus we just finished with 8 years of really dumb leaders.

And no. . . it's not the beer or the weather or the food. . . . just to keep it interesting, us Yanks have better beer, better weather and better food. Once you take Hawaii into account we might even have almost as good surf.

By Michael J on Mar 18, 2009

Here's "our" version of the Manly Daily.
1,000,000 weeklies, 32 different publications. Winning where all the Public Companies lost.

But he's Canadian. See what I mean.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2008-07-16/news/betting-on-black/

Maybe it's because our news cycle is filled with comings and, now mostly goings, of over leveraged public companies who couldn't resist the funny money bonanza.

Or just maybe ... it is the beer.

By Michael J on Mar 18, 2009

As the Euro-centric guy I am, I left out what is probably go to turn out to be the biggest source of English language innovation. The former colony, India. In my defense, I haven't yet found the right trade mags on the web coming from India.

By Bill Fleck on Mar 18, 2009

One thing that occured to me is that most of the those folks working & managing newspapers have been on the job for MANY years. It would seem to me w/a younger influence you would get "cooler stuff". The problem is the younger folks are not being guided to a dying industry! It is unfortunate but newspaers in part have contributed to their own demise by some of the things they have done & not done over the years!!

By Michael J on Mar 18, 2009

With all due respect I have a very different take.MANY years often means the experience that allows a company to guide through the normal up and down recessions.

I think the bigger problem is that the corporate types have never understand the real value of newspapers. They've made tons of money during funny money days and thought it would go on forever. They believed their own stories about "guardians of democracy, etc." and didn't want to focus on the fact that they are in the selling advertising business.

Then when the music stopped they were deer in the headlights, decided that the old fogies had to go,their salvation would come through the Internet and firing as many people as they could fire as fast as they could fire them.

Turns out that journalism is growing by leaps and bounds with both start ups and web based platforms. Newspapers that have kept their eye on the ground are doing well.

Meanwhile the twittering goes on and on. While the presses keep printing.

By Andy McCourt on Mar 18, 2009

Michael, very insightful and, from a societal point of view, an important set of observations. It's also important to the world because the last thing free folks want is an introspective USA that takes a fortress approach and thinks no one 'out there' loves them. We do and thanks for MacArthur! Let me take your points one at a time if I may:

>>Any thoughts on why the coolest stuff in English is most visible in the UK and the Other former colonies? <<>I’m not buying that Brits, Canadians and Aussies are smarter than us Yanks, but everytime I see something on the web that is really cool, it’s not from here.<>>My theory is that there is just too much noise in the States for the real signals of innovation to get through. Plus the Aussies are the closest English speakers near Asia. Plus we just finished with 8 years of really dumb leaders.<<<>>>And no. . . it’s not the beer or the weather or the food. . . . just to keep it interesting, us Yanks have better beer, better weather and better food.<<<>>Once you take Hawaii into account we might even have almost as good surf.<<<<
Well I do love Hawaii and the pipeline takes some beating. But being a big island, we have over 10,000 miles of coastline - so there's just a lot more chance that surf's gonna be up!

By the way, I write for an Indian magazine and there are several in various regions of India. I can provide more info if you want. Their printing industry, and especially newspapers, is booming.

Sorry for the length of this post but Michael stimulates great debates.

By Andy McCourt on Mar 18, 2009

Michael,
Don't know what happened to the rest of my post - It was much more detailed than this but it's just disappeared...sorry.

[Adam: Andy, I don't see anything else from you in the comment queue.]

By Michael J on Mar 19, 2009

I'll concede on the surf. No way to beat 10,000 miles.

I look forward to your response. If it's appropriate you can put at Print21online.I just subscribed to the email newsletter.

Any information or sites you can post that can help with giving some visibility to Asia would be most appreciated by those of us at the middle of the pyramid looking from the outside in.

The CEO's at the global companies are all looking in that direction all ready.:)

By Bill Fleck on Mar 19, 2009

Michael,
What do you say about those newspaper "corporate" types who sold their newspaers for 10+ times earnings to some greedy group who did not undertsnd the news media in general. They are sitting on the beach getting their news from other sources than the printed word. Call it funny money or not but, they have a ton of it!!

By Michael J on Mar 19, 2009

The thing about a "greater fool" or ponzi scheme is that if you get out when the getting is good, It's good.

If you are still in the game when the music stops. Not so much.

By Lyle Jeffreys on Mar 19, 2009

Plane old economics--REVEALED-

Communications Media exists as a conduit for advertisers to reach potential buyers.

You can now measure EXACTLY how many readers see an ad BUT how many buyers result from that ad? Back to the ponzi class 101.

The scientific guessing principle - mathmagica ...

So here comes the hocus-pocus ---

TV -- sample 100 (Random viewers) and explode to 100,000 - pure guess

RADIO -- sample 100 (Random listeners) and explode to 100,000 - pure guess

NEWS /MAGAZINES
(USA)-- sample 100 subscribers and allow pass along up to 10 - not pure guess BUT more realistic than TV /RADIO

(EUROPE/ASIA)-- print 100 (Random readers) give away and explode to 100,000 - pure guess

New Media -- NO GUESSING -- 100 views is 100 views... BUT how effective is a BLINKING ad that barely gets read... Great tool for top of mind, but does it generate web traffic and a sale to advertiser (answer rarely).

... another ponzi scheme revealed!

Nobody buying ads based on TOP OF MIND, but instead based on REACH ... reality communicators exist because HOCUS-POCUS with numbers!

MARGINS in the gutter until further notice -
-- stop drinking the cool-aid OR switch brands

Tootles

By Michael J on Mar 19, 2009

Until Google or ?? figures out how to measure click to purchase...then all the bs goes away.....

By Michael J on Mar 19, 2009

Actually communication media makes most of their money in the states by selling ads. In other countries, less so.

Plus communication media is also how people get smarter. Low ROI for an enterprise, huge ROI for society as whole.

By Andy McCourt on Mar 19, 2009

Michael,
Re India - you might find these useful:
www.indianprinterpublisher.com
www.trprint.com/printingreview/index.html
www.print-publishing.com

There are over 20 printing trade magazines in India due to the diversity of languages, regions and interests. The All India Federation of Master Printers, headed by the Venerable and almost saint-like Viren Chhabra who turned 80 at last Drupa, is another good source but no website.

Adam - I think it was something I did using chevrons and the post was somehow cut. Pity because I really got into my stride about the power of the English language in cultures, agreeing with MJ about the 'tech overload' that the US is experiencing whereas some countries still have stars in their eyes on e-apps and hence come up with really new cool stuff etc etc. Ah well, those words are flapping in the breeze now. One day a Xroblork on a planet circling Alpha Proxima will find them and say "what the heck is all this about?"

Back to newspapers, I love the David Black story, highly inspirational.

By Michael J on Mar 20, 2009

Andy,
My bet is that when Xroblork finds your words she will download them and print them in one of their newspapers for wide distribution.

Thanks for the links to Indian printers.

Re English. One thing that has always given me great pleasure is that whenever I visit anyplace with printers - no matter the native tongue - we seem to speak a common language. Customers, ink/water balance, density and roller streaks seem to be the same everywhere.

By Truth B. Told on Mar 24, 2009

The advertising revenues are not down accross the board. Some papers are actually making money. If you look closely at these papers in trouble and folding, they have one thing in common; their ditorial boards are liberal. Conservative papers are not having such problems. I guess liberal readers don't support their papers and conservatives that bought those papers just had enough.

By Ian Roberts on Mar 25, 2009

The industry needs investment in the form of advertising, classified, display and internet... its up to us all, to show other mediums and other forms of advertising, which will get the newspaper market place buzzing again.

It does not matter how good or bad an editorial is, its down to revenues, without the monies coming in for newspaper advertising, we will see many papers go to the wall

By Erik Nikkanen on Apr 19, 2009

Here is an interesting take on what to do for newspapers.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jacek_utko_asks_can_design_save_the_newspaper.html

By Michael J on Apr 19, 2009

Here's one about the Design School at Stanford. They are particularly interesting because they've been hired by the Gannett people to fix Detroit newspapers..
http://www.pbs.org/idealab/2009/03/redesigning-journalism-at-stanfords-design-school085.html#comments