Discussion

By Michael Jahn on Jul 07, 2009

"So why is attendance dropping? Why as an industry do we find it so difficult to invest money and manage time to leave our office and go out into the world to learn something new? Isn’t it true that every equipment purchase, every payroll check, every expansion plan is written with dollars generated by sales?"

Why ? You kidding, right ?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

By Michael J on Jul 07, 2009

@Mike J, you got that right!

Plus the scarce resource is time. Education is moving online. Instead of, or in addition to, the gathering, consider how many sales people might take 10 minutes in between putting out fires to click to a site pick up a hint and move on.

A series of 2 minutes videos, some 140 character tweets, and maybe a clickable book (book+QR code) would probably get the messages across much better, faster cheaper.

By Brian Regan on Jul 07, 2009

I dont think online and twitter kernels of data will replace the dynamics of a great speaker. I think those things are great at augmenting learning, but not replacement. Human beings are made to connect with one and other mentally and physically.

Dont get me wrong I love online and social media and virtual worlds, but I still feel we as humans are moved better by face-to-face exposure blended with online enhancements.

Michael Jahn is correct that the recession and decline in business are likely causing the biggest stress on training budgets.

By Linda Bishop on Jul 08, 2009

What about this angle? Perhaps one of the reasons why our industry is in decline is because so many of us are too busy doing what no longer works as well as it once did. Habit is what stops us from stopping long enough to figure out how to learn something new and learn from our peers.

As to budgets being cut, I agree. But as we preach to our clients how they need to continue to "invest" in marketing to grow, perhaps we should apply the same lesson to ourselves with education.

And yes, there is a lot of stuff available online. I consume a great deal of it myself and find it valuable. However, discussion is what helps me process information and deepen my understanding and see new ways to apply it.

By Patrick Henry on Jul 08, 2009

I didn't attend, and I can't find a conference agenda at the PIA web site, so I'm curious: how many speakers or panelists were sales/marketing executives of printing companies? None of the headliners seems to be connected with an organization whose principal business is printing.

By Michael J on Jul 08, 2009

Linda,
Points well taken, but printers are manufacturers, not marketers. To Patrick's point, marketing experts are not manufacturers. Two different skill sets, proclivities, experience.

Consider: how many printers are using "VDP","transpromo", "multichannel marketing" to build their own business. If it's so great, why don't they use it.

One narrative is that printers are "too busy", "not visionary", "stuck in the mud." Replace "printer" with "customer" and you will find your self in most sales meetings.

But, perhaps the reality is that the benefit is not worth the effort. That seems to be the decision that printers have made. If we could figure out why they don't use it and fix that, it would probably go a long way to udnerstanding why such awesome technology has such low adoption rates among small and medium business.

Blaming the customer has never been and will never be a strategy that gets to success.

By Thomas Parbs on Jul 08, 2009

Sales is the backbone of any business. Everything a company has to offer will be a moot point if there is nobody to bring the service and/or product together with the customer. The neon "OPEN" sign on your front door won't cut it. As a US Marine, it is quite evident that every military service is geared to the benefit of the rifleman and infantryman. We were the guys fighting in the trenches, destroying objectives. artillary- softens targets for us to destroy, helicopters and airplanes bring troops and supplies and even bomb targets- to make it easier for the infantry (the backbone) to fight the fight. Same as with any business, print or not. To be honest, as a paper salesman, most clients of printers don't have a clue on how to use print effectively to market their goods or services. and honestly many printers have no clue on paper itself (paper isn't paper people). Not a clue in the world (for the most part) But as a printer, the expert- it's up to you to ensure there is a mesh. There are 2 types of sales people you can have: 1. Closers- those who obtain business when none can be found, those that make deals happen, generate sales and revenue dollars, and can retain and obtain business when things look bleak (as many print companies feel now). And 2. Order takers- typically make the least amount of money and are there to handle an order if and when it ever comes in. Think more customer service than actual sales. So I believe everything should be tailored to having the right sales people who know what they are doing, are experts in your goods and services, and can increase your per client revenue while bringing on more business- even if it is to replace that which has been lost.

Unfortunately many companies, printers, paper companies, just businesses in general see sales as an expendible resource. When, without a trained sales force (including continuing education on how to sell and the company's products), a company will not do as good. In current market condidtions, that could lead to disaster (and it is quite clear in today's economy that it is happening all around).

In closing, a company is nothing and will be nothing without a sales team. A good sales team. And if a printer thinks that by dropping prices, or buying foreign products for cheaper prices(and yes you usually get what you pay for in many cases), and/or trying to be the lowest price- I believe you are giving away market share that will never be fully regained. And to push any blame on the client- they don't know anything about what we do. In fact, most businesses are so focused on a price- they don't realize the COST of doing something. Why save $100 just to lose $10,000 to your bottom-line. A printer needs to look internally becuase the fault is there. Life is like a chemistry experiment- you have constants and variables. I can't control the variety of people and businesses, but I can consistently control what I do. And consistency is a horse I would bet my money on every time. So train your clients, have a sales force that knows what to do and how to do it, make sure every department is on the same page and be consistent. Statistically, everything else will fall into place.

I consistentlly grow 10% month over month (over and above the month before) and in one of the worst times I have seen in this industry I am currently having record months and seeing a 20% increase to my sales and profit dollars every month. Nobody is calling their clients, nobody is increasing their average sales amount with current clients, well 95% of everyone isn't. And I promise you, if your sales team isn't calling them, if you aren't calling on them, if you aren't servicing them properly- I will. And if it isn't me, then another highly trained, seriously motivated person like myself will call them- furthering your despair.

MANIFEST YOUR DESTINY!!(because nobody and no force of nature will do it for you).

Semper Fi,

Thomas Parbs
"The Marine"

By BarryW on Jul 08, 2009

Why dropping attendance?

Why are hospitals laying off workers since people aren't choosing COVERED elective surgery?

Why are Americans forgoing a record amount of due Vacation?

Why are people skipping funerals?

Because they are scared that their absence from work will lead anyone to ask what that person does that really has to be done to keep the firm going.

Print sales managers that rely on other folk's books of business for at least part of their income are no different.

And as to using the tools they sell...Like my dsd used to tell me, "Never trust a man who would not buy what he himself sells, if he had a need for it". "Eat your own dog food"

By Justin Goldstein on Jul 09, 2009

I might be biased since I work for Printing Industries of America. I see no passion from many companies. Everyone is afraid to make a move or do anything. You can't live in fear, life is too short. Also, I don't see anyone my own age (26).

Online devices like webinars and twitter are ok, but it reeks of being lazy. A handshake is much more powerful than an email.

By Michael J on Jul 09, 2009

@Thomas, "The marine," Spot on.

But how do you deal with the problem that finding, training and comping good sales people is very, very rare. As for educating, if very few of the full time professional teachers do a very good job at changing behavior with education, how do you expect most sales managers to do a better job?

No doubt if you can do it or find them AND nurture them...but then how many people are Marines?

On the other hand, from what I understand about Marines, there are very explicit rules, clear and fair incentives and the job is to keep on keeping on. and no yutzing or whining. Probably would work pretty well in print or paper sales.

By Brett Davis on Jul 10, 2009

@Justin G. I feel the same way and agree 100% (I'm 27) and see a lot of our industry staying with "what works" There is a lot of room for advancing with new technologies and products.

By Thomas Parbs on Jul 10, 2009

@ Michael J...

That is a very good question, as it could probably be stated as, "finding, training, and comping great sales people IS extremely rare."

Not everyone is cut out for sales, and even more sales people aren't cut out to be sales managers. Plain and simple. It takes a special something in a person to do what a good closer does, and unfortunately not everyone can do that. There are many sales people that can scrape by, and most companies don't care what quality of salesperson they employ because we are just expendable assets that receive a portion of the company's profits. As the company doesn't realize that without a fantastic sales team, you wouldn't have profits (unless you have a one-of-a-kind product that everyone on the planet has to use- and products like that are as rare as a blue moon).

I educate myself, because at the end of the day- nobody will do it for me. I am not satisfied with being good, I want to be great. I live, breath, sweat, and bleed what I do. I am a freak, but I believe anyone who is truly successful is out of the ordinary. Look at the wealthiest people who EARNED their wealth from the ground up- there is something about them that the average person would say, "what a weirdo." But nobody will pay my bills for me, nobody will hand me my life on a silver platter, so I will go out and create my success. But you don't have to nurture a great sales person- they know what to do. They just need to be monitored from a distance, ensuring they remain focused on the objectives at hand. Make sure they have the right tools (you need ammunition), proper access to further hone their skills, educate them on products, services, and benefits, and make sure ALL departments are working together so as to create fluidity in the corporation. Keep this in mind- THE MORE MONEY WE MAKE- THE MORE MONEY YOUR COMPANY MAKES (and vice versa)

Did the military help? Yes. I am a highly disciplined person. In an undisciplined society we live in today, I already have a head start. But as any human can do what he or she puts their minds to, and truly wants to do- anybody can be great. But do you have the intestinal fortitude to do what it takes? YOU WILL ONLY GET OUT WHAT YOU HAVE PUT IN, but unfortunately most people are lazy and want something for nothing. If someone disagrees with that statement, then they need look no further for a perfect example of what I just stated- most people are lazy and want something for nothing!

For a sales manager to be good, they have to be able to work harder, close more deals, have higher sales dollars (more importantly higher profits because what's the point of a sales dollar if there is no profit), but they need to lead by example. If a company has a Sales Manager who just sits there dictating because in the "old days" they did this or that, or they have been in an industry since the dinosaurs roamed- I would fire you in a heart beat, or put them in customer service and let them answer phones.

Those that whine, get left in the dust. Those who sit around and wait for things to get better, will get left in the dust. Every company has different priorities and different ways of doing things. Just as every Sales person has different ways of selling (what works for me may not work for someone else). But happy sales people are productive sales people. Productive sales people generate REAL PROFITS that may never have been achieved before.

We are all in this together, so an even mix of good compensation plans, a great team and/or company to work with, and sales manager who lead by example are things I look for in a company. I believe in my products, I believe in who I am, and I will give 1000% more effort than most people ever will. I will create my own future.

And lastly, sales people should either be paid their worth (if on salary) or privy to a commission structure that allows for higher earnings with greater results. But if a company can't take their sales department seriously, then are they even serious about what they do as a corporation? But if a sales person can't take their company seriously, then move on.

I don't know everything, and I could be very wrong. I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong, or when I make a mistake- in fact I can offer solutions to remedy a situation or can suggest someone who can. I get the job done and so can many more people- they are out there. Money doesn't attract the best of the best, but a package. It's cause and effect- a great company, with great leadership, a sound product that will benefit it's customers, a healthy environment, and a support staff to assist as the company grows-- that's the package.. Everything else, like money and commissions and wealth will fall into place. They are the effect of a strong cause!

In My Opinion,

Thomas Parbs
"The Marine"
Sr. Sales Exec.
Guy's e.Paper Co
[email protected]

By Michael J on Jul 10, 2009

Thomas,
I'm out of the game after 35 years. Now I'm focused on doing what I can to fix high school faster rather than slower. Turns out managing a sales force of a high school class is pretty similar.

Here's what I mean:
"I educate myself, because at the end of the day- nobody will do it for me."

Same thing for everyone. Teachers think it's about teaching. But actually it's about learning. You can't force someone to learn. Just be there to help when you can.

"But you don’t have to nurture a great sales person- they know what to do. They just need to be monitored from a distance, ensuring they remain focused on the objectives at hand."

In a business you're right. In a high school the job is to get them to be as great as they can be. If you can't afford to pay for a star or if you're not willing to take the risk that you need the star more than she needs you, you've got to have a farm team to grow your own.

"most people are lazy and want something for nothing!"
No doubt. But a different spin is most people want to relax and have a nice life at the minimum possible effort. Or another spin is that living organisms want to consume the least energy to do the most work.

In the context of high school, don't fight it, use it. Same thing in sales. People will always do the easiest thing for them to do. So make it easy for them to do what they have to do. It will still take focus and consistency, but it doesn't have to be hard.

My favorite thing in the world to do is to be part of a interesting bullshit session. That's fun and I love doing it. Turns out that by building on what I like to do, instead of trying to do what I hate to do, it worked out pretty well in the sales business.

On the other hand, I couldn't be "motivated" by deadlines, sales goals, profit analysis, blablaba. Luckily I had a partner who liked to do that. I did what I did. She did what she did.

The thing about clear processes and proximate incentives is that it allows the manager to find out what everybody likes to do. In sales, as in a high class, usually people are very good at what they like to do. And pretty awful at what they don't like to do.

The job of the sales manager or a teacher is to figure out what everyone is best at. Get them to do that. Figure out what they need to get better and better. Notice and reward success. Tolerate failure for a while.


Unlike a high school class, in a busines you have the option of firing people who can't get it right. If the sales manager can't do what they are supposed to do, fire them. And if the company doesn't have the culture to get it right, fire them and find a job with one that does or set up your own business.

In any case, no crying in baseball and no whining in printing. It's just business, it's not personal.

By Thomas Parbs on Jul 10, 2009

@ Michael J


I agree with you 100%. And as far as "In any case, no crying in baseball and no whining in printing. It’s just business, it’s not personal." It couldn't have been said (written) any better.

And yes, to farm your own/grow your own superstars is a fantastic solution- molding that person into a "fine oiled machine" can reap huge rewards. But a person definitely has to like what they do, otherwise don't do it. And you were absolutely correct about that!

I like your style, you're a good man!

Sincerely,

The Marine